I am really growing weary of all the hypocrisy I am seeing. And, I am going to be honest, that hypocrisy is mostly coming from the people who are against homebirth and are "fed up" with natural childbirth. Hypocrisy such as being pro elective c-section but adamantly anti- homebirth. If you cannot understand the hypocrisy in that, you need to reevaluate your beliefs. Let me explain.
Elective c-section without medical reason has a neonatal death rate of 1.77/1000.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1523-536X.2006.00102.x/abstract
When the people who are against homebirth analyzed the CDC data on homebirth, they came up with a neonatal death rate of 1.15/1000. (found here)
So, just based on this alone ( let's forget about the numerous benefits to baby and mother at a homebirth for a minute, especially when compared with c-section ), more babies live at homebirth than babies who are born by elective c-section, with no medical reason indicated. Here is my question- do you think it is hypocritical to support the one where more babies die, and at the same time, relentlessly go after the one where more babies live? Interesting question to ponder.
Then there is the hypocrisy of "blaming loss moms". Oh, am I tired of this line. I am tired of people using this statement to win arguments, to make themselves look sympathetic and to make other people look evil and cruel. If YOU blame mothers who have lost babies, then you are a hypocrite if you get angry when other people do it, too. Please, please, take a look at yourself and your own actions. Work on yourself first. You think it is wrong to blame loss moms? Okay, then, don't do it yourself...
The majority of these comments ( a few others were about two other loss moms) were about a woman who labored for eight days and her midwives would not take her to the hospital, even when she begged. Taken from here. These are what the commenters, who are against homebirth, had to say about this mother's loss...
BWF had absolutely no responsibility in this. Again, totally misdirecting blame.
The comments below are from two other homebirth loss stories taken from this blog..
Those who are against homebirth, use the line- "NCB'ers always blame loss moms!" So, they are not happy when their cover has been blown. Guess what? They blame loss moms! Is it okay? No. Leave these mothers alone to grieve in peace. But, as I was kindly informed, numerous times when I asked for this, on this anti-natural birth blog, "they put their story on the interwebz, so we can judge it if we want..". Wow, how thoughtful.. how kind. Maybe, now they will look at themselves and the next time some grieving mother has her story posted on this awful site, people will protect her and defend her. And, for those who like to always claim it's the NCB side who blames, please come back to this post every now and then and have a wake up call. Read your words, read your friends words, check out the kind of comments YOU like. Hypocrisy, ladies, it's what you ate for breakfast.
OMG. I truly hope the mother of this baby did not have to look at these responses in her fresh grief. I am quite sure as a mother she recognizes her role in the outcome of her birth. Guilt is a part of grief and there is absolutely no need at all for anyone to inflict MORE grief on an already grieving mother.
ReplyDeletePeople are so completely insensitive when it comes to a homebirth loss. It is disgusting. None of us want our children to be hurt let alone die. If it upsets you(general you) consider how the mother, who lives with her choices daily, feels. And try to be gentle about that. She is a human being with feelings probably still trying to come to terms with her loss. The unnecessary trashing of her as an individual is not at all productive. To anyone.
I love the "This is their only accomplishment" comments. Love them. I'm the sole wage-earner for my family, in a highly competitive field (data analysis), with a degree from a private college. I get PAID to analyze information -- what makes people think that all those skills and reasoning ability go out the window when it comes to making medical choices?
ReplyDeleteBut of course, it's not really about that anyway. Show them evidence and they'll just demand more. Prove to them that they're wrong and they'll say your evidence is the "exception." Show them a massive body of evidence and they'll show you anecdote. Tell them the odds are completely in your favor, and they'll tell you "You just don't believe you could be that one-in-10,000." Tell them you're not afraid, and they'll tell you you should be.
I get that everybody on the HCB/NCB side is trying to find common ground and "end the mommy wars," but we're building a bridge from one side. These people DO NOT WANT to demilitarize. They don't WANT common ground. They don't want evidence, or even proof. They want their ideology. They want to believe that there IS a way to control threats, eliminate risk, and have a 100% successful outcome rate. They want to make life perfect through modern science and hate that we exist to remind them that that isn't possible and never will be. They *want* and find comfort in the idea that when "the system" fails, it's because of the woman's body, not because the system is flawed and will never be perfect. That's why HB loss moms are such a boon for them. It solidifies the idea that women's bodies are flawed as a universal (rather than selective) rule and in need of immediate medical salvation.
Ultimately it comes down to the fact that we cannot write, or talk, or work for these people, because they don't WANT to examine their own biases and beliefs. You can't make a horse drink. All we can do is support each other and continue to examine the evidence as it arises, being confident of ourselves, grateful for medical intervention WHEN NECESSARY and in awe of our bodies when they work as they almost universally, inevitably, will. Anyone who doesn't respect that, doesn't deserve the respect necessary to create a relationship.
All of those comments came from the blog, not the small group that has supported and become friends with the mother. So you can complain about those folks, but they aren't the same. I don't comment on the blog, many in the group don't either.
ReplyDeleteWhat I think is most reprehensible in this hypocrisy is that they spend their spare time provoking others by coming to their pages and posting stuff they know we disagree with, from people they know hate us (themselves included), and then delight in the argument that ensues, and they have a very clear goal in mind-- to use it as fodder and pretend you look bad. All it takes is for the person provoked to defend themselves, and extra points if they are like me and not afraid to use foul language or be blunt, and they go on acting like innocent angels, pretend their sentiments were not sarcastic or facetious, etc... It's fucking ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, there is a clear set of rules they follow. They always do certain things, where certain rules only apply to other people but never themselves. But you see, there IS no honor among thieves... so eventually, they will even bite the hand of their "friends". Someone needs to show this post to the person it pertains to, because true colors should be exposed. I see a good blog post coming on.
And you know, this would be really scary and dangerous what they are doing, by being so two-faced, and attacking others but blaming them for their own issues.... but the thing about that is, no sane person just wandering in to their blogs, pages, or posts is swayed by their idiocy. To the normal innocent bystander, they look as crazy as they seem. So, luckily, when you're seeing all the comments, the high-fives, the likes, you can rest assured that it's all entirely contained within their little community.
Good job, Sammy ignoring information that I gave you. :-/ Thought you were trying to be unbiased.
ReplyDeleteWhat information, Atina? You have not given me any information. It's amazing how people can blame me because they don't like to see their OWN actions. These are not my words- I did not write them- they are not out of context. They are on a blog post about a HB loss. People were unbelievably cruel. When I stood up for her, people attacked me as well. Well, don't be a hypocrite, saying how horrible it is to blame loss moms and then do it! Even if you write the comment, did you like it? Did you remain silent when everyone was ripping her apart? What about all the other women who have lost babies who have been torn apart on that blog? If you support Dr. Amy, then you support the exploitation of homebirth loss mothers AND their babies.
ReplyDeleteeven if you *didn't* write the comment
ReplyDeleteWhenever a screen cap is shown or conversations verbatim repeated, I have heard your side (Atina) scream about how ugly we are to loss moms. Really? Because we show the world how you are behaving, we "attack" you? You don't like to have the mirror held up to you, but that's a personal problem. Not ours.
ReplyDeleteNow, me... as twisted as people have tried to paint me, and even when they "forget" to show certain parts of our conversations together... I am still able to stand by my words.
Own your actions, ladies. Own your words, your opinions, and quit deflecting.
But the situation you described in your introduction came after these comments were posted. How could they be directed at something that hadn't happened yet?
ReplyDeleteThatsnothowscienceworks- I have no clue what you are talking about.. would you explain?
ReplyDeletethatsnothowscienceworks meant that the comments that you posted many of them have dates before the tragedy you are referring too.
ReplyDeleteAnd no one will know what information I shared with your because you didn't post the comment I made (which was similar to thatsnothowscienceworks).
Wow...thats I i have to say is WOW. There are very few instances that id blame a mom but damn...those are some cold hearted comments.
ReplyDeleteI'd blame the mom if she was drunk and left her kids unattended with an open window and the child fell out or was drugged up and the children go playing in the road and get hit by a car...those kind of things is when I blame the mom just to be clear. This is what im talking about...if you are passionate about something and want to educate others, you dont do it in a demeaning and judgmental way or you won't get a good response, you will get the opposite...(not you TSM...you know what im saying)
Atina- go back and reread the post. You all just skimmed through it and didn't pay attention to anything I actually wrote. Not to mention, the entire point of this post is to show that those who are anti-NCB blame loss moms. One of the most over used points by those who constantly criticize the NCB community, is that they "blame loss moms". Uhhh.. hypocrites much?? Check out those comments! ^ The bottom ones are from two different posts about mothers who lost their babies during a homebirth. The majority of the comments are from a post about one mother.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Atina, the comment you made was along these lines- "these are comments from the blog, not the small group of women who support and befriended the mother". I'm going to have to call bullshit there Atina. First of all, you all are hiding behind fake names, so who knows how many of you actually said these comments. But I do know that Stacey, Florence, Mama Tao, Sara- WPB, Karen, Kory.. then there is lovie angel- part of fed up and nickie's mom 16- who is also part of fed up, all partook in some of this. That doesn't include the people liking comments as "guest"- how convenient, or the people who read these comments and remained quiet, or the people on fed up who never reveal what they post under on SOB.
Hi. Thank you for putting together all of the horrible comments made about me. I am not sure if this post was meant for me to find it or what, but I only recognize one of the names on the likes and comments. I am not friends with any of the other people, but now I know who to watch out for, so thanks. :)
ReplyDeleteMargarita, I'm so sorry.. I didn't make this so you would see it, I made it because I couldn't stand the hypocrisy and because I think this kind of thing is SO wrong. When this blog post went up about you- btw you are not alone! These posts are made about many homebirth loss women.. I defended you and a lot of the people who claim to protect loss moms, pretty much made fun of me and my comments. It made me so angry that people could be one way to someone's face, another way when they don't think anyone is looking. Yes, sadly, I would be careful who you trust. Just because this is the net, and it is very easy for people to fool others into believing they have good intentions. I am so, so, sorry for what happened to you. No one is prefect and no one can claim they would have acted any differently than you did in that situation. Your midwives should have taken you to the hospital. Bottom line. So wrong. Much, much, much love to you. And, I'm sorry you had to read these terrible words.. :/
ReplyDelete